Quincy Jones has been on a roll lately, first giving an epic interview to GQ where he bad-mouthed Taylor Swift’s songwriting abilities and reflected on Prince and Michael Jackson’s famous rivalry. Today, Vulture published another amazingly candid interview with him in which he discussed his work with Michael Jackson and The Beatles.
“I hate to get into this publicly, but Michael stole a lot of stuff,” Quincy said. “He stole a lot of songs. [Donna Summer’s] ‘State of Independence’ and ‘Billie Jean.’ The notes don’t lie, man. He was as Machiavellian as they come.”
“State of Independence” is a Jon Anderson and Vangelis-penned song originally released without much success in 1981. Summer recorded and released a cover version on her self-titled 1982 album that performed much better, becoming a Top 20 hit throughout Europe. Jackson sang background vocals on the chorus alongside Lionel Richie, Dionne Warwick, Stevie Wonder, and more.
Jackson’s “Billie Jean” (which he co-produced alongside Jones) dropped one year later, and features a bass riff that bears a striking similarity to “State of Independence.” There has never been a lawsuit over the similarity, although Jones recently won a suit against Jackson’s estate over royalties payments.
Jones also claimed that Jackson refused to give famous keyboardist Greg Phillinganes—who also worked with Earth, Wind & Fire, Eric Clapton, and Stevie Wonder—a cut of the royalties on “Don’t Stop ‘Til You Get Enough.” “Greedy, man. Greedy,” he said about Jackson. “'Don’t Stop ’Til You Get Enough' — Greg Phillinganes wrote the c section. Michael should’ve given him 10 percent of the song. Wouldn’t do it.“ Although Phillinganes is credited as the Electric Piano player on the track, he didn’t receive a co-writing credit.
Elsewhere in the interview, Jones offered a negative review of The Beatles, whom he referred to as “the worst musicians in the world” and “no-playing motherfuckers.” According to Jones, none of the band members were talented at their respective instruments:
Paul was the worst bass player I ever heard. And Ringo? Don’t even talk about it. I remember once we were in the studio with George Martin, and Ringo had taken three hours for a four-bar thing he was trying to fix on a song. He couldn’t get it. We said, ‘Mate, why don’t you get some lager and lime, some shepherd’s pie, and take an hour-and-a-half and relax a little bit.’ So he did, and we called Ronnie Verrell, a jazz drummer. Ronnie came in for 15 minutes and tore it up. Ringo comes back and says, ‘George, can you play it back for me one more time?’ So George did, and Ringo says, ‘That didn’t sound so bad.’ And I said, ‘Yeah, motherfucker because it ain’t you.’ Great guy, though.
Jones arranged Ringo’s cover of “Love is a Many Splendoured Thing” from the former Beatle’s 1970 solo album Sentimental Journey, which was produced by George Martin and is likely the studio session Jones is referencing.
He also made a long series of wild claims throughout the interview, including that he once dated Ivanka Trump, that Chicago mobster Sam Giancana assassinated former President John F. Kennedy, and that Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen can sing and play guitar just like Jimi Hendrix. Later on, he discussed his problem with modern pop music, saying musicians and producers haven’t learned from the past:
The mentality of the people making the music [is the problem]. Producers now are ignoring all the musical principles of the previous generations. It’s a joke. That’s not the way it works: You’re supposed to use everything from the past. If you know where you come from, it’s easier to get where you’re going. You need to understand music to touch people and become the soundtrack to their lives.
He did, however, point to Bruno Mars, Chance The Rapper, Kendrick Lamar, Sam Smith, Mark Ronson, and Ed Sheeran as artists making good music.
Check out the full interview here and read all the lyrics to Quincy Jones' biggest hits on Genius now.
