So this has been.my favorite song of OTEP's since it came out in 2004, and I always thought it was a song about a child's narrative of suffering in an abusive Christian home. But now that I am revisiting the lyrics, I am seeing something totally new.
This song could be gospel of John but from the perspective of Jesus.
Jesus was NOT having a good time up to and during the crucifixion. Everyone in the known world at the time looked to him with fear, admiration or disgust and he was constantly being asked questions. He spoke in "verses, prophesies and curses". He had made an enemy of the state, and believed the world was increasingly wicked and fallen from grace, or that he was in the "mouth of madness".
The spine of atlas is the structure that allows the titan to hold the world up. Jesus challenged the state and in doing so became a celebrated resistance figure. It also made him public enemy #1.
All of this happened simply because he was doing his thing, not because of any agenda he had or strategy.
And then he gets scourged (storm of thorns)
There are some plot holes here but I think it's an interesting interpretation.
New blood joins this earth
And quickly he's subdued
Through constant pained disgrace
The young boy learns their rules
With time the child draws in
This whipping boy done wrong
Deprived of all his thoughts
The young man struggles on and on, he's known
Ooh, a vow unto his own
That never from this day
His will they'll take away
What I've felt
What I've known
Never shined through in what I've shown
Never be
Never see
Won't see what might have been
What I've felt
What I've known
Never shined through in what I've shown
Never free
Never me
So I dub thee unforgiven
They dedicate their lives
To running all of his
He tries to please them all
This bitter man he is
Throughout his life the same
He's battled constantly
This fight he cannot win
A tired man they see no longer cares
The old man then prepares
To die regretfully
That old man here is me
What I've felt
What I've known
Never shined through in what I've shown
Never be
Never see
Won't see what might have been
What I've felt
What I've known
Never shined through in what I've shown
Never free
Never me
So I dub thee unforgiven
What I've felt
What I've known
Never shined through in what I've shown
Never be
Never see
Won't see what might have been
What I've felt
What I've known
Never shined through in what I've shown
Never free
Never me
So I dub thee unforgiven
Never free
Never me
So I dub thee unforgiven
You labeled me
I'll label you
So I dub thee unforgiven
Never free
Never me
So I dub thee unforgiven
You labeled me
I'll label you
So I dub thee unforgiven
Never free
Never me
So I dub thee unforgiven
And quickly he's subdued
Through constant pained disgrace
The young boy learns their rules
With time the child draws in
This whipping boy done wrong
Deprived of all his thoughts
The young man struggles on and on, he's known
Ooh, a vow unto his own
That never from this day
His will they'll take away
What I've felt
What I've known
Never shined through in what I've shown
Never be
Never see
Won't see what might have been
What I've felt
What I've known
Never shined through in what I've shown
Never free
Never me
So I dub thee unforgiven
They dedicate their lives
To running all of his
He tries to please them all
This bitter man he is
Throughout his life the same
He's battled constantly
This fight he cannot win
A tired man they see no longer cares
The old man then prepares
To die regretfully
That old man here is me
What I've felt
What I've known
Never shined through in what I've shown
Never be
Never see
Won't see what might have been
What I've felt
What I've known
Never shined through in what I've shown
Never free
Never me
So I dub thee unforgiven
What I've felt
What I've known
Never shined through in what I've shown
Never be
Never see
Won't see what might have been
What I've felt
What I've known
Never shined through in what I've shown
Never free
Never me
So I dub thee unforgiven
Never free
Never me
So I dub thee unforgiven
You labeled me
I'll label you
So I dub thee unforgiven
Never free
Never me
So I dub thee unforgiven
You labeled me
I'll label you
So I dub thee unforgiven
Never free
Never me
So I dub thee unforgiven
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This song is def a twin to "Unfair" (a song she has been quoted as saying is about falling in love with someone who is already in a relationship) so it is presumably about the same person. Given the references to buying an apartment and not being able to see her love interest "after tonight," it's most likely that she's moving away and she'll "wait a day to break the bad news" (i.e. notifying him that she's leaving once she's already gone).
And, of course, the fact that she sees in him a fellow "idealist" and "dreamer" (terms commonly given to people with the INFP personality on the Myers–Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI)) portends that she'll always be left wondering if they would've been perfect together.
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The song lyrics were written by the band Van Halen, as they were asked to write a song for the 1979 movie "Over the Edge" starring Matt Dillon. The movie (and the lyrics, although more obliquely) are about bored, rebellious youth with nothing better to do than get into trouble. If you see the movie, these lyrics will make more sense. It's a great movie if you grew up in the 70s/80s you'll definitely remember some of these characters from your own life. Fun fact, after writing the song, Van Halen decided not to let the movie use it.
A child is born. He is raised and forced to conform through pain. He vows to himself that he will never lose his will.
As a man he never lives for himself. Everything pure he's ever felt never shows through his actions. It's too late to turn back. He will never forgive himself.
As on old man he prepares for death. He has nothing but his regret.
He forgives not himself. He forgives no one else.
@singsong42 Wow... That made me sad..
@singsong42 Thank you! Great explanation!
@singsong42 Man... The way you've described it....<br /> Isn't everybody's life like this?<br /> Everyone eventually make choices he/she regrets. Even after years of trying forgetting them. It still haunts them.<br /> <br /> Sometimes it's hard to find peace that way.<br /> Even though you beat yearself up somestimes. You'll still need to try
@singsong42 agree with you, Thanx
@singsong42 terrible...no wonder 11 yr old are committing suicide at an alarming rate. C'mon, Metallica, why you gotta stay dark?? With songs lyrics like this, what hope is there for a savior?? Are there really some who've walked this earth who believe they're worthy to carry such a weight? I'm not judging, but I am really disappointed in Metallica rn.
@singsong42 he didn't die with any regrets, he died humbly while being bitter because he knew what others didn't but...you know how everyone knows everything accept when to stop being ignorant. You have the best description though
@singsong42 <br /> <br /> Best description ever!<br /> They way you explained the meaning makes the song more clear and very sad in the same time.<br /> Metallica's philosophy is very special and very deep in meaning and they adopt beating around the bush and very indirect approach, and you need to think in deep to elicit the profound meaning.
To sound like another mindless internet drone myself...I'll start this off with "I think." I think this...well, I"m really sure this song is about society today. And yes, today is the same (if not worse) than 12 years ago when the album was released. Anyway, I think this song is about society in the manner that nobody is free to be themselves anymore. The only time we are truly individuals are when we rebel. The way the world works, as soon as we are born, we are influenced by those around us to join the conformist, industry-ruled world we live in. Even though it was a comedy, Number 2 in Austin Powers said it best. "There is no world anymore. It's just corporations." And given the lyrics "What I've felt What I've known Never shined through in what I've shown Never free Never me So I dub thee unforgiven"
I just find that these enforce my thoughts.
"What I've felt" -- deals with his feelings and emotions "What I've known" -- Everything that he (and we) know that we aren't allowed by culture to disperse "Never shine through in what I"ve shown" --We are becoming one big lump of crap...a big mass with no individuality. This means that even though he's a person, it doesn't show, because he's a drone. "Never free" --Ruled by everything around him "Never me" --It's not acceptable in today's culture to be yourself. (I say screw this and everyone who enforces it, but that's the way it is) "So I dub thee unforgiven" --He feels he's unforgiven because he can't find it in him to stand out so much that you'll recognize him in the basic group of lowlifes.
Anyway, this is what I think the song means.
That is exactly how i understand that part....except the last line- So I dub thee unforgiven...i dont get that line...maybe because i dont know englis so well..
@OrgasmThroughFinch<br /> "So I dub thee unforigven" literally means "So I call you unforgiven"<br /> it sounds more like he can't forgive the person who has caused it.<br /> <br /> BTW Can anyone explain the following part please?<br /> <br /> Never be<br /> Never see
@OrgasmThroughFinch Never be (himself/ what he wants to be), <br /> Never see (what he could have done or become (won't see what might have been).
@OrgasmThroughFinch you know this song well, and probably have more years on me. If society is worse today for conforming, then it might be you being older and having more responsibility, but it is hard to say. In reality, it is your choice to blend in or stand out based on whatever situation you are in. When it doesn't go your way, you can write a song about it and become famous, but then you have to accept all of the requests that come with it. Metallica seems pretty happy despite the anger in their songs.
@OrgasmThroughFinch <br /> <br /> Never be, never me... it refers to the fact that I'm not free at all, which means I act like others think like others think etc. Therefore it is not the real me but instead it is MEN, just like in Martin Heidegger's philosophy or Jiddu Krishnamurti thoughts.
@Quince<br /> <br /> Thank you for the explanation of "So I dub thee unforgivern". The subject can be MEN, the society, but also including myself, himself. Because me and the world is just the same, not separated. We all are unforgiven.<br />
best metallica song. totally about how a child is controled and demanded to confrom and he regrets doing it as an old man.
OK I know I'm a bit late, but here's what the song really means to me.
It is about a guy (him, you, me, anyone) who was never free to be himself. Instead, society forces us to adopt certain behaviours from the moment we were born. They tell us what's right or wrong, what's good or bad, whether legally (laws) or culturally (through the opinion of others). So the guy grows up and feels trapped and he can never escape from this prison. Then he just gives up. He doesn't care anymore and feels he might as well die right away since it's not he (the guy he was or could have been otherwise without all the social pressure he had to conform to) anymore who lives but some zombie who has had to live by society's standards. So in a sense, the unforgiven could refer to society as a whole.
But to me, the unforgiven also has a second meaning : himself. He is the Unforgiven because he can't forgive himself for not breaking free from all this crap and finding enough courage to be himself, to be the boy he could have been had he not surrendered to social pressure. Despite his vow to never surrender (that never from this day his will they'll take away), he failed. Then he gives up the fight, he feels old, and he feels his life is over (I don't think the lyrics litterally mean he grew old. That's just how he feels.) He feels there's nothing more to expect from life. (The old man then prepares to die regretfully) What's the point in living if he could never be himself anyway? For him it's too late. He can't forgive society for forcing its rules upon him, nor can he forgive himself for not having fought harder to break free from this when he was younger.
Excellent take on it!
@MasterOfMyOwnLife What about <br /> "You labeled me<br /> I’ll label you"? His younger version of himself didn't label him. That would point more to the society.
@MasterOfMyOwnLife what if it wasn't too late?
This song reminds me of the novel "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley.
The young boy learns their rules
Deprived of all his thoughts
They dedicate their lives To running all of his He tries to please them all This bitter man he is Throughout his life the same He's battled constantly This fight he cannot win
These lines from the song strongly remind me of the concept of the book - of living in a world where everyone is foolishly conditioned and "drugged" to think that everyone is happy. Their thoughts, ideas and their individuality is taken from them.
A brilliant song...
@Ignorethesmoke I agree with this too! God knows I was "drugged" into believing I was happy in a 28yr marriage by a fraudulent sociopath ex who scammed me from the getgo
@Ignorethesmoke <br /> But I have to say this is probably the most depressing song I've ever heard...why? Because the guy will now spend eternity in hell for not forgiving. <br /> If we are to love our neighbor as we love ourselves, then we're probably supposed to forgive ourselves as we're supposed to forgive others.<br /> <br /> I'm super disappointed in Metallica. The youth of our nation, as well as old ppl, need hope, not the option to dub oneself as unforgiven and die in a sea of regret.<br /> No wonder suicide is at an all time high.
This song is about a father and his sons relationship. The son hates the old man because the old man has no self respect and so was unable to raise the boy with the perspective of self respect. Due to this, the son has a horrible life and blames his father. The father is proud and wont accept his son outgrowing him, thus the conflict of wills, ultimately leading to the sons self sabotage.
this is along the lines of what I thought too..
That's the relationship James had with his father.
@twilightwrath I would disagree (unless he confirmed it in real life). <br /> The "old man" in the song is himself, not his father ("That old man here is me") and also he's the boy he is singing about ("What I've felt" etc).<br /> Maybe he's singing to his father, but I would lean more to the possibility that he is singing to young version of himself and he cannot forgive himself for obedience or he's singing to society for wanting him to be someone he's not inside.<br /> <br /> I couldn't conclude who is that he cannot forgive. Who has labeled him? His parents (I would doubt that he's talking about his name...) or society? Maybe someone else?<br /> <br /> Why not father:<br />
@twilightwrath I think, according to your perspective, in the end, the son gains the courage to stand out and declares "You labeled me -I labeled you, so I dub thee unforgiven."<br /> The son gains enough courage/self respect to project the "unforgiven-ness" back toward his father who first labelled him...<br /> <br /> Its quite a sad song actually... because he and his father(or some other being-perhaps even himself) are in a constant conflict labeling one another : /<br />
personally my favortie Metallica song, should be obvious that the song is about a guy going through life that was made fun and "labeled" as a child, forced into conformity as an adult, and left alone to die as an old man regretting he ever lived. The song explains that what you do will forever be more important than what you've known and felt
ok, no one commented on this either, Jesus man! This is another classic Metallica song, y is no one commenting on these songs! if it wasnt for that intro riff that Kirk plays, i wouldn't have started playing guitar, this song is bitchin'!
I didn't comment on it because it is so obviosly good that nothing I could say would improve it, and if someone doesn't realize how great it is, I certainly wont be able to speak louder than the song.
This song was written about Frank Garrett who was diagnosed with HIV in 1987, the song No Leaf Clover was also written about Frank Garrett.<br /> <br /> Frank Garrett was given the title The Younger Man by Ronnie James Dio back in the 80s.
rpm1978- how is that in any way a reply to what elfie said? its completely irrelevant. <br /> anywhoosle great song. i immensely enjoyed it
The cycle of life and death in a world filled with people using you and taking profit out of you.
@truthseeker777 I can definitely relate to this perception. And I struggle everyday to forgive myself for buying into the lies of the enemy. But, the good news is as long as we're still living, it's never too late to right our wrongs...to take back what should have been ours from the beginning..b4 those who believed they knew better for us took it all away from us.